WriterAccess Webinar Archive
How Agencies Sell Content Marketing Services
Thursday, February 27, 2014 – 1:00 PM ET
Digital marketing agencies are on the move catching the content marketing wave. But transforming an agency into a content marketing machine is challenging for many reasons. Until now.
Join host Byron White and guest John McDougall, author of Web Marketing on All Cylinders, for our 50th content marketing webinar. Byron will show you how to setup, sell and manage content marketing strategy and services. John will explain how he fits content marketing services into his offerings, and how he delivers the ROI clients demand.
The webinar covers...
- Content Pricing and Proposals
- Selling Content Services
- Delivering on ROI Demands
- Defining Performance Goals
- Measuring Content Success
The slidedeck from this webinar is available for download.
Byron White: Welcome to today’s presentation everyone; I’m here with John McDougall. John, welcome.
John McDougall: Welcome Byron, thank you.
Byron White: I’m very excited about today's presentation. Let me go over a couple of rules for today's webinar, our 50th. Getting close to my age, very close to my age, which is good news.
John McDougall: Congratulations on both.
Byron White: Today's webinar is really going to focus on agency life, content marketing agency life specifically. We’re going to try to dive into some of the challenges with selling content marketing services and I’m very excited to share some experiences that I’ve had with IdeaLaunch, which is a full-service content marketing agency.
A couple of house rules for everyone. First, please ask questions using the live chat. Second, use the used tweets, twitter rather. Feel free to tweet myself or John with any feedback on the presentation. That would be really helpful and appreciative. Next, feel free to send me an e-mail with any feedback or request for more information. Know that we will be sending a link out after this presentation to everyone that will include a recording and access to download the slides that you're about to see. We also have a proposal sample which I’ve included that everyone will want a copy of as well as an actual content plan sample which I think everyone will find quite interesting. John McDougal of McDougal Interactive has put together a guide as well that he wants to get out to everybody. So lots of really cool stuff that everyone will have a chance to take a look at.
Without further ado, I'm going to start the presentation and guide you into my quick understanding followed by John on this topic. I want to talk a little about the pitch and how to really sell content marketing services, Over the years I've done hundreds of pitches, and at our peak we had about 100 clients that we were doing business with including Walmart, Starbucks, FTD, lots of really interesting companies on the BDC as well as BTB companies like Higher Mountain and Salesforce. We were blessed with some great clients that trusted us to help them grow their business organically, the content marketing way. I’m going to talk a little bit about the pitch today, the workflow and the results which really drive more pitches and more workflows, it’s kind of a circular world if you will.
Without further ado, let's dive into the pitch. I'm a big fan of the Socratic approach and selling anything. I believe wholeheartedly that no one really wants to be sold to these days. I try to teach and train any sales that ever for me to stop selling and start asking questions to really learn the wants and needs of customers. To me, that’s the driving force of any sale and when I hear people starting to talk about their features and their business and their services and how great they are, I put a big caution flag up because it’s conveying to me that they care more about what they're selling than what my needs are. Use your judgment and develop your own tactics and strategy. I made crystal clear to any people that were selling for me that the Socratic techniques work, not only with trying to sell but also in managing your customers.
By the way, my slide deck is kind of interesting today. I’ve actually chosen to write out what I’m saying, so when you download this stack you’ll have a quick summary of what I’m talking about. I’m trying a new technique here, so let’s see how it works and feel free to give me feedback on that. I want to actually show you all some smart questions, you could take a look at these while I’m talking here. When you're selling content marketing services, you’ve really got to ask very very good questions to understand what your customer’s needs are and how sophisticated they are in the buy cycle of content services.
By asking these questions, it’s quite remarkable how much you can learn, how you can really size your customer with what their needs are and whether your services match those needs. I'd also point to some of the bottom questions. We’re going to talk little about some tools you need as well to find the clues as to how your customers are performing. Another thing to really hone in on these days is your client’s understanding and respect for the content marketing revolution that’s happening. That is very revealing at the end of the day, with how difficult it's going to be for you to sell them content marketing services.
I like saying this line, I’ve said it to a thousand people, and it’s my classic line. The definition to me of content marketing is that forward thinking companies are starting to think like old-school publishers; gathering ideas, developing stories, publishing a steady stream of content that engages readers and keeps them coming back for more. I can recite that line off the top of my head and I often begin discussions with anybody about content marketing to make sure that we’re on the same page with that understanding.
Back when I was selling content marketing, back in 2006, 7, 8 and 9, content marketing was a relatively new concept. From the C level downward, people were not buying into it as a viable way to invest. Pay per click was much more appealing, you could actually track your visitors and your conversion rates. Content was more subjective, more difficult to produce and get buy-in from multiple people, and in general, a more difficult concept to sell.
I think when you find those customers that are drinking the Kool-Aid, if you will, you have a remarkable match, and you should seize that opportunity very quickly. So, what does the match look like, what is the match made in heaven? I think it's an important question to ask, and from my perspective, you have to look at both sides of the table here. The best clients come to the table with a sense of urgency, they know what they want, they’re crystal clear on what the objectives will be, particularly with performance, and most importantly, a client will have respect for your skill and your ability to deliver.
All of those things are the clues that you need to quickly understand as you're prospecting and looking for customers. You can waste a lot of time out there with clients that are not the right fit, don't have appreciation for what you do and don't really know what they want. That's the real challenge that we’re all facing, and the best agencies know how to dive right into the client's business and surface with a plan to deliver the creative ideas and content necessary to make stuff happen. More importantly, they have a proven track record to back it up.
That's my quick take on the matchmaking process and one you should hone in on to really make your pitch work; pitching to the right people at the right time to really maximize your return on your own time in pitching to a business. The homework before the pitch is really, pretty critical. You need to learn quickly how their site is performing and who their competition is, Of course, you can ask them, you might be surprised when you ask them by the way. What's the keyword focus, what's their social cloud, what's their current publishing frequency, what are their content goals? What kind of qualities is the client looking for, what quality do they have right now?
You need to do your homework before you even engage in a conversation with a customer. This is key, it’s critical, and it begins to put you in the right kind of position to understand what their needs are. You need to dive much deeper than just what is your budget and what are your goals? You need to get much, much deeper than that.
A lot of cool tools are out there, let me show them to you. You have the keyword search tools, which I think everyone's using. By the way, this is just my quick list. Remember, I'm not doing full-service content marketing service at all anymore, we’ve moved completely out of that business. We’re now on a platform working with agencies and clients to use our platform and have content created, I’m sure everybody's pretty aware of all these tools that I was using, particularly these research tools that you see, but we’ll have a list for you.
There's some interesting workflow tools as well, and I wonder how many people on the line right now are showcasing these tools and using these tools in their presentations and their pitches. When I was out pitching content, we built our own tool called WordVision. You can go to WordVision and check it out if you want, but the net of it is, it was our go-to demonstration tool where we show clients how we are going to deliver the ROI that they were demanding. Without that tool, I really don't believe that we could be successful. This tool WordVision was not Upspot. It was not one of the incredible tools that are there right now in the marketplace. It was a precursor to some of these incredible tools that were built, but it was essential.
I wonder who on the line right now is using tools. I’d like some feedback on that, some comments to then share with some of the other agencies. What are your go-to tools? What are you using? We’d love to hear that. One of the challenges that we all face is what is the definition of quality content? How do we define that? Let's face it, it's subjective. The key when you're selling content services is to quickly understand the expectations a client has with their content and what is quality content in their eyes? What that means is you need to ask your customers for samples of excellence to try to set the bar and you need to review all of the specifications they’re going to have and the requirements.
Before you even get to the proposal stage, you’ve got to understand what this customer wants if you're going to start to imagine what it’s going to cost you to produce it, either in-house in terms of time or search or other variables. Outsource as well; is it three-star work, five-star work or premium work in our world over at WriterAccess? Even on the premium levels, is it $.10 per word, is it a dollar per word? These are tremendous price variables that you need to contemplate when you talk about this reality, that you get what you pay for, that needs to be thought through.
Next, let's take a look at the proposal, and I've actually got superfun good news for you. I actually have a sample proposal that I created five years ago, so please excuse the antiquated aspect of it. I'll try to show that to you as I move along, but you're going to be able to download a proposal. What I would have you think very carefully about is that you’ve done some research, you sized up what it's going to take to deliver the ROI the customer demands.
Now it's time in the negotiation stage to really size up not just a single proposal that works within their budget, which we all want to try to do. Instead, try to showcase some different levels of service and solutions that will likely deliver different results. Those are key distinguishers, at least they were for us, because we could put together a few different proposals very quickly that would start to predict what kind of ROI measurement to expect.
I think it's worth you taking a look at how we set up our proposals and templates so you can get a feel for it. If you want a sneak peak, if anybody's dying right this second, to download the proposal, you can go here where I actually set up a page that will allow you to download this, so you can take a quick look at that.
Another very interesting aspect of the way that I used to pitch business was to sort of dive deeply into learning who’s going to do what. You might be quite surprised to learn that customers have a very different understanding of who's going to do what. For example, who’s going to handle idea creation for a blog post? Is that going to be the customer or is that going to be you? The answers to those questions are very key, particularly with who’s going to be approving the content, what skills do those people have that are going to be approving the content, what's the expected turnaround time, how far in advance do we need to plan, what's the sign-off process look like?
You've really got to get a deep understanding of who does what if you're going to be profitable on these projects and campaigns that you're bringing in and there is a lot of variation, I can assure you, with expectations and who does what. So, these are a few questions for you to think about.
One of the challenges is how do you show your strengths? At the end of the day, it's really how you bake the cake not the ingredients of the cake. That's a very important metaphor; I wrote a nice blog post about that some time ago. The net of it is, while we may think that our long list of assets that we've created is essential and our expertise is essential, I would argue that it's really how you pitch your whole approach to content marketing that needs to be your distinguishing characteristic.
You need to tailor make your approach to every individual customer as well; it's not a one-size-fits-all campaign. I would suggest that it's sometimes a bit more analytics here, more emphasis on optimization, or reviewing what their current link popularity is. You need to customize your entire approach to content marketing for the specific needs that, number one, the client’s telling you they want, and number two, what you're seeing with what they're doing currently.
Your strength is not just a laundry list of what you do; your strength is the ability to customize what you’re delivering to your customer. The real muscle behind the pitch in my mind is your references. It’s hard to believe, perhaps, but while you may dazzle your prospects with the scientific approach and a glitzy proposal that seems to work sometimes and smooth talking rap, what really matters is references, particularly the agency level.
It's difficult to get good references; it's often taxing, at least on you and your customers, to imagine your customers selling your services. We always had great difficulty and resistance almost, with having to go to clients and saying, “Hey, could you offer a reference to me?” Unfortunately, when you're out pitching monthly retainers and/or $50,000, $100,000+ projects, or even better yet, we were pitching half million dollar projects fairly regularly, your references play a big role in building trust.
There are some creative ways that that's being done right now; video testimonials are quite interesting. At least that's a one-out situation where the customer then doesn't have to make phone calls on your behalf. I think we’re using technology intelligently these days. LinkedIn is another great place for references; they’re private and can be done on a one-out basis. That really does become the muscle behind your pitch.
Let’s go now to the workflow and bust through this a little bit quicker. To me, content marketing is a team support and your team plays a really key role in that whole process. Who's going to run day-to-day contact with customers, versus creation and ideation of topic ideas, versus optimization, versus distribution? These are often separate people that are responsible for these that all need to work together.
Your team is a key asset to success and I would argue that you also need outside team players to help out, but the question is, how are you managing those? Most of the agencies we work with at WriterAccess have one dedicated person that manages maybe 50 or 100 customers on a very large level. They're the key person using the WriterAccess platform every day; they're entering the orders and the ideas for orders, or they’re asking our writers to pitch ideas to them, and they're approving the content.
As we scale up agencies, we’re seeing this sort of team effort really be centralized by one person who becomes the go to, particularly for the content creation and optimization side of the coin, That person services a wide variety of customers, particularly if you’re getting help from an outside platform like WriterAccess.
What does the content flow look like as well and how does it go from draft, to approved, to publishing? That's a key component that agencies need to think through, and what's the experience required for each of these team members? If you’re going to build an A team to get A results, and you’re going to get A reviews from your customers, what do the skill sets look like and where the people getting these skills?
Training someone to be a content marketing specialist or content strategist is really hard to do. People need a balance these days of working with massive amounts of freelancers, and they also need help with strategizing more at the agency level. They also need help working on the client side of the table and not a lot of people have that well-rounded experience that really understands how the whole workflow works. Keep that in mind as you think it through.
I mentioned a second ago this concept of the captain of a ship, and I’ll just come back to that real quick. I do think you need a point person that’s sort of a know-it-all in a particular industry. We've seen a lot of our agencies focus on particular segments; that makes a lot of sense. I think you can build your team members around that expertise if you’re really going to make the workflow work and that really all needs to come together if you’re going to be able to make it work.
The next fun thing I have for everybody is an actual content plan. I may choose to show the content plan, depending on our timeframe and how many questions we get in the end. If people really want to see an actual content plan, you’re going to be able to download and take a look at it. If you want me to talk you through it, then just request a question about it, perhaps.
The net of it is, content plans really are the secret to success and they answer four or five main questions. Namely, how much content do we need, how frequently do we need publish it, how good does it need to be, what distribution channels do we need, and what return will I get for this investment? Your content plan should really be answering those questions, especially the last one which is, what ROI should I get for this investment? Again you’re going to be able to get a sample of this to take a look at it. I'll go back for a second; if somebody’s anxious to make a quick download, have at it, writeraccess.com/contentplan/template.
All right, onboarding writers; some of the secrets of onboarding writers. Let’s you're using in-house writers and you’re onboarding writers. I would argue that onboarding writers is a critical element to success, particularly for the higher-end pieces where a client may have an expectation level as we described earlier. As it turns out, educating online writers is actually hard to do. You need to test different writers that will bring different tones, styles and approaches to the content creation process to the table. You need to not put lipstick on a pig here; if a writer cannot meet the expectations, particularly after one or two rounds of revisions and still not getting a silver bullet, then you need to put up the red flag and say, “I'm sorry, you're not right for this project, this is going to be too difficult to execute.”
One of the beauties of a platform like ours, obviously, is that you’ve got the next writer instantly lined up that wants to see if their skills and approach can match up. So, test writers, make it work. Put in another test, that’s really what you need to do. Obviously, the challenge is to get the words out and the traffic in, and you clearly need a steady stream of content to achieve that goal. Some battles require a lot of content like, for example, trying to achieve top listings in search engines for keywords that have a high complexity to them, a high pay-per-click price or a high search volume. It's hard to jump from not even being in the top 100 to a top listing at Google.
You need to choose your battles wisely and look closely, particularly if it's traffic gains in the search engines that are part of the goals. What are the expectations, how can you get the words out, how can you get the traffic in? You need to get extremely granular and look at some of the challenges that you're experiencing, including new websites for competitive keywords, maybe it’s a re-optimization process, maybe the client has low link popularity.
All of these things need to come in, but if your focus and your job is to get the words out and the traffic in, you need to divine a pretty clear solution with the client in the planning and workflow stages to really make key decisions on what to go after and how much traffic you can bring in. Optimizing for multiple channels is also a key factor here. I’m going to talk about some of the tricks of the trade throughout this presentation in a second, but I would like to argue that optimization is the new SEO. You need to optimize for multiple channels, not just scattering and peppering keywords into content.
The days of fooling the search engines are over. It's now about great content written by great writers that have authority in things like Google+, where you have attribution with these writers, which you can now get on WriterAccess, for example. You need to know who these writers are and what they're doing, and you need a multi-channel distribution. That means on-page optimization and a more personalized approach to the content itself, maybe a sprinkling of some inbound links and some A/B testing. In other words, you need multiple channels, multiple optimizations within each of those channels. If you do that, you'll win and they'll lose, namely the competition.
How do you get the word out and what's the strategy there? What's really happening with the distribution channels these days is we’re starting to zero in on lower user acquisition costs on different channels. That's really where you need to get as much expertise as you can, and as much experimentation budget as you can with the customers that you're working with, because you just don't know what’s going to perform until you give it a try.
That makes it extremely difficult to map out a budget for a customer when you don't know what’s going to work yet. You need to work around that complexity and look for flexibility with your customers and almost approach each client with, “Look we don't know what’s going to work yet, we don’t know what’s going to engaging, and we don't know where your customers are going to engage with us in the least expensive way, namely, defining user acquisition costs.” The only way to do that is to get the words out and to see what works, to test and experiment with different channels until you find the lower user acquisition cost, in which case you then throttle up and do more.
We have all heard of the automated machine that’s coming at us, Pardot and Marquetta. We’re getting better and better at learning what works and what doesn't, who’s engaging, who isn’t, who should we be calling, who shouldn't we be. To try to think that you can drive a content marketing strategy for customers and not have that data is probably fairly ridiculous, particularly if you’re pitching bigger budgets. Use it and don't abuse it, don’t let it completely drive the quality of the content or where you’re publishing. Let it be loose, let it be granular, but let it deliver the results that it needs to, particularly with things like e-mail automation and other things like that are easy to set up and are clearly proven to work.
I think the big thing is that everyone on the line needs to hear it is that while we’re all diving deeply into content marketing as a serious industry in practice, I think few people are true ideation shops if you will. In my opinion, the agencies that have the big ideas are going to get paid the big bucks to make a long story short. Ideation is the bottleneck for most of the clients that we speak with. You need to study the content, no question about it, but for your signature pieces, your pieces that are looking for engagement, that you're looking to get passed around, those take a strategy, they take thinking and they take ideation.
I think that is what is the fuel for viral marketing, the innovation that you’re seeing, from Super Bowl ads to viral marketing campaigns, ideation will be the driver and you need to dedicate specific meetings with your customers about ideation, and if you're not doing that, you're in trouble.
So, a few tricks and treats for everybody here with the workflow. I’ll list them for you really quickly, so you can take a look at them. There is now a search engine inside of WriterAccess that quickly finds popular keyword phrases that all start with popular search phrases that all start with how, what, when, where and why. If we have more time I’ll show that to you, but it's a gold mine for finding what information people are looking for. I think that needs to be a driver in everyone, you can find these search engines out there.
We have one that you can try for free just by getting a free account at WriterAccess, and then go into content planner which is now available for all of our customers for free. Click on add an idea to the calendar and boom, you will see this engine that will give you incredible stats and data and show you exactly what people are searching for related to these questions.
The other trick of the trade that I love telling people is, if someone is creating a blog post, their head is right in the content. Have them also create a tweet, and a Facebook post, and a frequently question that that asset answers, then distribute those out, obviously, to Twitter and Facebook and a special FAQ page you build on your customer’s website that then links over to that post or that article. We’re finding when you start taking advantage of the opportunity to take one asset and instantly have multiple distribution channels and have linking and working to support one another. That's when you create a winner and that's what good strategists are doing within their workflow.
Some other tips are finding stories or interesting things about the employees of a company. A lot of people complain that they can't seem to get their staff members to blog. Well, of course they’re not going to blog, they’re not writers; they have other roles in the company. But they all have stories and I think good agencies are finding those stories, and documenting those stories, and publishing those stories about employees within the company.
We’ll end up with articles in an ebook or even a printed book; it’s a simple idea. We have customers that we’ve created 101 tips for that they’ve published on their blog that they’ve rolled up into an e-book or a printed book. I’ve done that myself; that’s what I did when I first started my content marketing agency a while ago. I wrote a book “101 Content Marketing Tips,”
I’m going to speak through and get through this a little quicker, but motivating writers is also a key factor in there. Surprisingly, writers care about more than just money, they need to be motivated. I think that’s a key part to the content marketing sale, is motivating writers. Let’s go through the results really quickly and then I’m going to turn things over to John. Apparently I’m talking too slow today; I don’t know what it is. I’m going to have to do something with my microphone; a few people are telling me my mike is not good.
Ok, I’m back now. So choose your battles wisely, another key part of all of this. I think that you need to use multiple reporting tools to find out what’s working, what isn’t working with your customers monthly, and reporting on different things and different victories. I think that’s key; to like or to share is now the key question that most of us need to focus on. You need to have traction in a social sphere to be relevant and you need to learn how to do that for your customers. Show me the money, that’s what customers really want to see. I think you can do that in a variety of ways, and you should be doing that for all of your customers. How is traffic affected, listing positions? You can take a look at this later, so I can quickly turn things over to John.
I talked a little bit about the muscle behind the madness here, and that is namely your references. In my opinion, you need to ask your customers the key question, “What is the likelihood that you’ll recommend our agency to a friend or a colleague?” There is a great book that I highly recommend you take a look at called The Ultimate Question 2.0. We’re doing this now; we’re reaching out to the people who are rating us a 10 or a 9. We’re learning that they’re talking about us, they’re referring people to us and they’re telling what they like about us, so we can do more of that and less of what people don’t want or view as a negative part of it.
I think agencies need to do that a lot more; it is the key to really where we all need to go. We all know about analytics; we’ve got to look super deep to find where the success is. Here, finally, so I can turn things over to John, this is a quick reference to a new book that I wrote that I encourage everyone to take a look at, “The Real Challenges: How do You Price All This Great Content and What do You Get When You Pay More?” Take a look at that book, sorry I was a little slow today everyone. I hope this was helpful and I’ll look forward to any feedback and any questions you might have. Without further ado, I’m going to turn things over to John.
John McDougall: Hello everyone, I’m John McDougall. As Byron said, I’m with McDougall Interactive Marketing and I’ll be talking today about the top 12 ways to be more strategic in your web marketing with a focus on content. My presentation is on the web marketing road trip. Byron, can you see that on the screen?
Byron White: Yes, perfect.
John McDougall: All right, good. Back in ’94, I was a media planner at my father’s ad agency. We were the sixth largest agency in New England, and in ’95 they gave me a laptop and said, “Go sell websites.” I would drive around with a modem and a phone jack, and I would dial up in companies’ offices and show them the Internet. The crazy sound of the modem would happen and they called me a snakeskin oil salesman. One guy actually said this Internet thing’s not going anywhere and kind of kicked me out.
We all know that times have changed, and the web is really taking off, and all kinds of agencies are really not only website focused but content marketing focused. One thing we see a lot, even with our agency background and partnerships with other traditional advertising agencies is that people often fall into the trap of being very tactical versus strategic. In 18 years of doing nothing but SEO and digital marketing, I've never actually been given a client’s traditional marketing plan where they say, “Hey, we’re working with a traditional agency and we’d really like you to keep on brand, on mission statement and on point.”
I think the good news is, number one on my list of 12 key things is, if you can be more strategic in either selling content or in your web marketing in general, you’re going to be ahead of the next guy because we’re amazed at how many people dive right into the details without setting a roadmap. My book Web Marketing on All Cylinders is about that concept of being more strategic in your web marketing. You can see that on the amazon.com, and all over the place and on mcdougallinteractive.com.
So, at number two, surveying a landscape is critical. Byron talked a lot about that in terms of using competitive analysis tools and just understanding also that marketing has changed. Back in the madmen days, when my father started his agency in 1969 or 1970, it was about reach and frequency. How many people you could reach, how many people would watch a TV ad and how often could you get that message out there.
As we know, it’s about engaging the people; otherwise, you’re going to be blocked out. All of the cylinders have to work together; strategy, SEO, social media, link building, absolutely critical. Even despite the changes, it’s still a huge part of the Google algorithm; content, blogging, PR, email marketing, mobile, pay per click, analytics and converting traffic, not just driving traffic. In the search results, unlike back in the early days, in the 90s, 10 blue text links that were what you got when you searched Yahoo! AOL. Then when Google came out it was pretty plain and these days, text links are coming up with local search, map listings, video, images and tweets. Twitter is happening, and Facebook and Pinterest and LinkedIn and all of these different social activities and different things that are all popping up.
As Byron would say, you really have to direct multiple channels. Given that the focus has been on SEO all these years, we like to take that approach where your website is your core, web presence. You could make Facebook your primary strategy, but in general, our clients will have a website, usually with /blog, so that it’s yourwebsite.com/blog, or if you really have to, blog.yourdomainname.com. We prefer /blog so that your blog uses the core folder structure of your website, but either way, your website and the content on your blog is often at the center of all those other sharing activities on forums and Facebook and Twitter and all of that. How your core web presence and really being clear on what that is, is important if you want to be more strategic so that when you’re doing things on Facebook, you’re linking back to the core web presence with a page that has a chance for Google to index on your main site, and for people to link to on the main site.
So, at number three, how to pit crew and not a webmaster. In the old days, people used to say, “Oh, you want to talk to the person in charge of our website. That would be the IT person or the webmaster and those are gone; it’s just too complicated these days to leave your writing, and your engaging content, and your website, and your conversion-optimized crap that’s designed for your website into the hands of one solo person that’s supposed to somehow do everything well.
Even writers, for example, we have one full-time writer here out of a dozen people in our boutique Internet marketing agency. We don’t ask that writer to do all of the writing for all of our clients, because we have 30 to 50 clients. Some of them are doing hip replacement lawsuits, and others, golf clubs; it’s really hard for that one person to do all the writing. That’s where something like WriterAccess that has the ability to get writers with specific experience in specific topics is an awesome way to automate your team, so that people aren’t wearing too many hats.
Number 4, ShareVille. New data proves that SEO and social are part of the same zone. So, page authority, the first bar on this list from MOZ, is how important is your page based on who links to you etc. That’s really what made Google Google; having an understanding of the other topically-related important authoritative websites that link to you, and that’s still paramount. Google+ and a number of LinkedIn domains, Facebook shares, likes and comments; all of these things are part of what makes your website rank in the search engines.
Separating SEO and social media doesn’t really work anymore; both of them require really good content because nobody’s going to link to you without good content. If you try and game it, you’ll end up revealing gaming in this scenario. This is from Duanne Forrester of Bing, from a webinar that I did that he ran. He said, “Don’t be tempted to game social media,” because on the left, it shows how they can look at the pattern of the growth of your social media. On the right is the more natural pattern of organically-created social media where you have an amazing blog and the content is just so engaging that people are actually sharing it, and talking about it, and buzzing about it. When that really happens naturally, the search engines can see that. Gaming link building and gaming social really doesn’t work anymore, and getting content will let you do it more organically.
SEO is now less and less about optimization and more about social sharing and overall brand reputation online. The basics of on-page optimization are still a prerequisite to ranking, but it’s less important than really standing out as an authority. Social and SEO are like bread and butter, so they go really well together. The social signals, while they may not be proven to be immediately causing your ranks to go up, we know that a significant amount of social activity is common among the top-ranked websites. There is a high correlation between sites that not only have tons of pages, but quality enough pages that people are sharing those pages. It would be very unnatural from a search engine’s perspective to look at your site and say, “Hey that’s great, you made 10,000 articles, but if nobody shares those articles, something’s fishy.”
So, because that’s such a big trend for the search engines, Google and Facebook are battling it out on who is going to dominate the realm of owning social platforms. Google has a billion users a month on Google search, YouTube, Google maps, Android, Chrome and Google+ are not far behind. Trust is also an important part of your strategy, and if you're trying to get people to write about you in the New York Times and link to your website, it’s critical that you have a hook, and a blog, and quality content. We got a link from the New York Times on Thanksgiving day last year and it’s because we had great content, I think, about our seminar series.
Tying the content into things like public relations and, of course, your link-building is a way again to think more strategic. While you’re doing that, as Byron mentioned, Google+ author rank, you want to have writers that are writing quality content, but to start to amass signals around those writers, that can build a ranking, if you will, around the energy of those writers.
For example, if you have a writer where you put the Google author code on all of the 500 pages of your website, it might dissipate it a bit. On the other hand, if you put the authorship code on the best articles of your blog, for example, and then you put that authorship code on some of your key money pages. and Google sees that the high-quality articles on your blog are linked to and written by this author, and then that author also wrote some of your money pages, the likelihood for those pages goes up in the search ranks because Google can see that author is important, as opposed to just pumping out loads of content.
So, people on search engines, and journalists, and authorities, someone like Suzie Orman, just one example of a thought leader who has a book and a great blog and iconic content; those are the people that are pumping out all kinds of content, video, infographics, podcasts, white papers, blog posts, image galleries that I think are going to win the war by covering all the channels.
Content is proportionate to leads, according to HubSpot. This shows that if you have 311 or more pages on your website, you have a 236 percent increase in the amount of leads. That’s a limited number of people, of course; it was a pretty healthy survey that HubSpot did of their customers, so 311 might be slightly arbitrary, but I think the idea is good, A 25 to 50-page site certainly isn’t going to compete with a larger site with volumes of healthy content.
Here are some mini versions of Byron’s amazing content and analysis. We always like to look at least at the amount of pages indexed in Google, such as for Bank of America - 382,000 pages indexed, 452,000 pages linked to their site and a million plus visitors. So, if I’m working for a local bank, and we’ve worked with about 10 or 12 banks as SEO customers, it’s important to see not only what their local competitors are doing, but if you search Google for banks or credit unions in Boston, not only the local competitors but the national competitors, even though our customer might say. “Hey, I’m not competing with Bank of America,” that doesn’t matter if they’re beating you in the search results in Google for “banks Boston.”
You’re not necessarily going to get a local bank to compete size-wise, with a 380,000-page website, but you do need to be aware that content is proportionate to monthly visitors to some degree. Wells Fargo having less pages, but certainly a lot of pages, 129,000 pages indexed in Google, a blog with 15,000 pages and five million plus monthly visitors. You wouldn’t see Wells Fargo having a 25, or 50 or even a 300-page website and then coming even close to those numbers.
We do competitive analysis using a site map, and on our blog there’s an article about this, how to create a site map and do competitive content analysis. So, at the very least, you can run a site map on your site, and then run a site map on each of your top three competitors. Put those in tabs in Excel and sort by the type of file, like if it’s a web page or a pdf, or a blog post and then you can get a snapshot, where you can say, “Hey look, our client with 895 pages is by far the smallest website of all of these competitors, but interestingly, we have the most blog posts.
So, what are those competitors doing to get content on their site? Again, there’s a little bit of info about that on our blog. Byron, by far, has amazing tools for that type of analysis. With competitive link analysis, it’s really great to look at a competitor with tools like Ahrefs. Majestic SEO or Open Site Explorer by MOZ, to look at not only the amount of backlinks to a site, but what pages generate the most backlinks. So, this is Stone Temple Consulting. They have their blog and their interviews with Matt Cutts of Google; those are some of the types of content that get a lot of backlinks. So, that’s a really fun way to look at not only what’s great content, but what generates a lot of backlinks.
So, with the major algorithm changes, Panda, Penguin and Hummingbird, now it’s all about quality content and quality backlinks and conversational content; people talking over their mobile phones and asking those who, what, when, where and why questions as Byron mentioned. Conversion optimization is so critical because for every 92 dollars spent driving traffic, only one dollar is spent converting traffic, but most people have a 1 to 2 percent conversion rate. For every 100 people that come to your website, if only one person takes an action, then you're leaving a lot of money on the table. A site like Swann’s Food has a 43 percent conversion rate, so don’t be happy with a one to two percent.
Whether you’re doing content marketing or page search, I think increasing your conversion rate is going to increase the amount of leads you get with the existing traffic you have. We have one customer right now with an almost 100,000 a month page search budget. We told them we’re not going to start to page search until their blog is up to speed, because we want to make sure that they’re seen as though leaders. Again, that ties it all in strategically, so even if your boss or your marketing people are trying to do a page search, it all ties together with being an authority.
If you don’t follow up well, you’re going to lose the lead. Responding within five minutes, according to InsideSales.com and a lot of other studies talking about this, leads to a 900 percent increase in conversations. Responding to leads within an hour generates seven times the conversations, according to HubSpot. It’s one thing to create all of this great content, but if you’re driving people to your site, but you don’t get back to them for a couple of days, your competitor already got back to them and you lose the lead.
Mobile, of course I think it’s probably fair to say, I would assume everyone is hearing about how responsive web design, even Google is making nice comments about responsive design. If you’re not optimizing your content for mobile, again, you’re leaving a lot of money on the table.
The last few slides talk a little bit about ROI tracking. We always do PowerPoint presentations for our customers every month, and one of the key slides from our analytics research shows which sources are driving traffic. Is your email content driving a lot of visitors like this customer? Organic traffic, people typing in your domain name, cost-per-click, referral traffic etc. If you don’t have attribution tracking set up, Google Analytics will look at the last 30 days of traffic in terms of did someone who came originally on Facebook but later came in a page search click have an influence on why they clicked on your paid ad. HubSpot has a longer-term cookie based way to track attribution. If you’re doing really great with content on social and you want to know if it’s affecting your overall strategy, just look into a tool for attribution tracking like HubSpot.
And takeaways; create an Internet marketing strategy document or plan before you just get moving down to tactics. Know that all the tactics feed on each other and are symbiotic with each other. Content and engagement strategy is truly a priority, “engaging” meaning don’t just get the content out there but share it on social media and try and get influencers to retweet you etc. Conversion testing is critical versus just guessing that, “Hey, you know we love the look of our new website, but what about the actual visitors?” Did the conversion rate go up because you wrote better content or you added certain content to your blog
Get serious about ROI tracking and don’t put all your eggs in one basket. We had a customer who was ranked number one in Google for saxophones in about 2000, or maybe 2005; number one for saxophones, a single word, number one for band instruments. He kind of dropped out of touch working with us, and put all his eggs in the eBay basket because it was highly profitable, but eBay kicked him off. His search traffic is in the tank and he doesn’t have a good email list. He’s just come back to us but it’s going to be an uphill battle now because he’s diverted all the energy into one channel and it’s a bit of a disaster, so having a multi-channel strategy is great.
So, if you want, there’s sort of a long link here, but maybe Byron might be able to put it in the email follow up or you can click and get it from the presentation. It’s a link to one of the chapters in my book that we made as an ebook, and you can get it at our site www.mcdougalinteractive.com, or you can send me an email at email@example.com, and I’ll be happy to take questions. So we’re going to pass the baton over to Byron.
Byron White: Am I being heard?
John McDougall: Yeah, but it’s fuzzy again.
Byron White: Got it. I think my fuzz is going to go away in a second. I’m good again. The fuzz is gone; it’s also gone on the top of my head, I might add as well. So, I just wanted to show people a couple of things. We had some really good questions, and I want you to start thinking about this one John, while I show something.
Someone asks, “I work in a corporate market department. Content marketing is demanding to us because it breaks down the traditional silos of advertising creative services, public relations, web digital etc. How do you suggest marketing departments organize themselves and their teams to build comprehensive content campaigns to get all of these traditionally separate groups on the same page?
So, I’m going to answer that, and then John, I want you to have a go yourself. So, I personally think the answer to that question is rooted in a content plan that begins to get all team members on the same page with what the goals and objectives are for content and how it relates to the different departments. So, this is a campaign and I wanted to have everyone have an actual content and SEO plan bundled together as an example.
You can see quickly that the table contents of really what we do here with the content plan. This is a pickup of a plan, an actual plan that we created for a customer that took, believe it or not, about 400 hours to create. So, we’re going in and we’re analyzing domain names and doing lots of interesting things and looking at doing tons of keyword research. We actually used SpyFu to scrape the organic keywords that were being driven to all the competitive sites, then we pulled out the duplicates, then we pulled out keywords that we thought were irrelevant to the content marketing effort that we were proposing in the plan and it left us with about 5,000 keywords that we wanted to focus on for the content strategy for this particular customer.
We broke all those 5,000 keywords into about 15 or so different silos, we call them. So, within each silo, we have some golden keywords and what we call low-hanging-fruit keywords, which are listing positions of 11 through 50. I won’t spend a ton of time on this, because you can all look at it, but I just wanted you to quickly hear from me, what was going on as everyone can download this.
We do all this research, right? We do competitive research to see where this particular client stacks up with the competition with page rank, and pages indexed and inbound links and all this data, right? Which then brings us to a massive amount of data, but then next we need to look at auditing the content on the website and looking closely at what they're producing. We also want to produce and sample content, so we can all get on the same pages I described of what an example of quality content would look like. Then we want summarize everything and we want to say, “Look, we did all this research, okay, and this is what I think we need to produce.”
We’re recommending 136 articles. You can read the data here; 890 blog posts, and this is just a one-year contract, 160 case studies, right? This page alone right here, most importantly. We’re recommending a half million dollar budget, and we expect the traffic to increase half a million, and the value for the number one listing positions to be 2.5 million. We’re beginning to get very granular; we’re showing budgets, who does what to answer that question of how we do get everyone on the same page.
I actually presented a plan similar to this to a very large BBB company. Their entire marketing department sat and watched me talk about this plan, what we’re proposing, what ROI we think we could get from it. The goal was to get everyone on the same page for these particular assets and that's really what people are doing. There's massive amounts of indexes that everyone will see here, so there’s a ton of data.
It comes with our predictions and looking at how we’re trying to help this company capture market share in all these divisions that they’re going after. So, that's my answer, but John, feel free to chime in with your thoughts as well. It's a complex problem that in-house companies are having right now.
John McDougall: Well, I think you know that the plan is where to start there. If you take a tactical approach, that’s where it becomes just getting into the weeds and people start to sort of fight on things. If you step back and say, “What are the goals of the organization as a whole?”, make sure at a very high level that you’re clear on the goal of the company as a whole, not just the goal of the individual parts of the marketing.
Then, maybe go back to what you said about the Socratic approach and question base selling, but maybe use that same tactic with each of the team members and say, “Tell us what your goals are for the content marketing and get the list of the goals for each of the team members, and then compare it to what the goals are of the company as a whole and make sure that everything is aligned. If the individual team members are doing things that are aligned with the goal, then they should be listened to.
Byron White: I couldn’t agree anymore, John. Let’s see some other interesting questions here. I love this question; what the hell is ideation? Well basically, ideation is nothing more than creating ideas, that’s really the net of it. It is a formal process, and it’s a buzzword I frankly love. I think “ideation” needs to become its own science, its own industry, perhaps ideation is the next frontier beyond content marketing. So, any thoughts on ideation, John? How important is that to your agency?
John McDougall: No, I think you summed it up nicely, honestly.
Byron White: Yeah, let’s look at a proposal. Proposals are tricky little numbers, and this is a proposal that everyone now has access to. This was back when IdeaLaunch was a full-service content marketing agency. I made a conscious decision to move out of the agency business and move into the platform business. Over the three or four years that we ran that business, I think we really kind of nailed how to pitch a customer and how proposals should be created. Honestly, this is four years old so I don't know if it's as hip and cool as what people in the audience are doing now in pitching projects. A little summary of ourselves, a crisp, clean statement of work which understands exactly what we’re trying to do, a summary of our services that people can sort of get a feel for quickly, and we then go in with each proposal and we’ll estimate the number of hours it would take to build out the content plans that you just saw looking at the different parts of it.
We would often have customers limit our budgets, perhaps, in planning and limit our scope because they had done the research themselves, or they already had their keyword silos built out, or they didn’t need a website audit. They could customize this and we could do the same with them to try to see how much horsepower they needed up front. With the planning, we would sort of explain what would be in the plan, we would go through that process; that was really a big deal for us to get that right. We had little nice checkboxes that people really liked on who's doing what. IdeaLaunch is doing this, but the clients will get training or whatever.
So, I was really pretty happy with this proposal and people really got it. We would often list what the word counts would be, and what level of writer we were going to use, and how complex the work might be, so that we were all on the same page articulating exactly what we were expecting. We would then explain the different star levels of writers we might use, the complexity of the project. So, we were trying to educate at this stage; much of these proposals were all about educating customers about content marketing. In so doing, we were validating that we were truly experts in this topic, and we understood what was about to happen.
I just wanted everybody to see it; you can study it a little bit closer. John, how are you pitching jobs these days, similar things to this? Are you getting granular, and really diving in and customizing proposals? How is it working for you?
John McDougall: Well, you know, we’re not selling only content because we’re a full-service digital firm, so we’re selling page search as well, although SEO and content marketing are at our core. So we try and pitch the idea that the content again is going to make you more of an authority. We can do public relations for you; much more likely because you have a great blog, so we’re really trying to come at the approach where content is awesome on its own, but it’s even better tied into multiple strategies.
So Byron, I would actually ask you, and we talked about this a little bit when we got together recently. I’m guessing that out of the people that are listening, not everyone, including myself is pitching $500,000 projects for just content, Byron. I mean, we’ve got some nice sized projects, but 500k for just a content project is pretty far on the top of the food chain there, I think.
So, what about for the smaller customer? Because we have customers from local mom-and-pop kitchen stores, to big attorneys who might have a lot of money but they don’t really sometimes even want to deal with content. Any words of inspiration for either the smaller customers or the banks and law firms that are really worried about compliance? Even getting them to blog once a week for some customers is hard. So, any words on a lower level to get them pumped up, that they’re kind of missing the boat, that they’re competitors are doing so much?
Byron White: Sure, besides prayer, which does work. I think that really people are starting to get it now. I think that what we enjoyed most about our job, when we were doing it, is actually the education that we’re offering and providing to customers in showing them examples of what works. I believe that’s all people need see, John, right? Show me an example of where you took a bank, or you took a law firm, and you went in, and they trusted you to manage content for them; and to not only manage content for them, but in your case, digital marketing, pay-per-click, placement and reviews.
Show examples of what you can get when you trust your agency, John, with some ammunition that you need to win some wars out there. I think if you can show those examples to people, you’ll be quite surprised to see how quickly they jump on the bandwagon, honestly. I agree with you, you know what's funny? I actually got out of the business for many reasons because: a) it was very expensive to go educate people and to pitch people on these big half-million-dollar projects, right? Most of it was education and very similar problems to someone who chimed in today. Our marketing department is dysfunctional; everyone’s wanting to own certain pieces of the pie because they believe wholeheartedly that no one wants to own the whole thing or get together to get creative people not just doing ad campaigns or traditional campaigns, but images for blogs; that’s owned by a different department.
I’m a big believer in showing the results, getting everybody on the same page with the results, and one example of that is this new planner that we brought out to the masses here. Every one of our customers, 7,000 of them, has a quick access to see how much content did I publish, both on my blog and in the social sphere, how is my traffic affected and how are my listing positions affected? We had some problems over here with this particular month in getting the data here because this is a new technology that we just rolled out.
It’s pretty cool; it’s right in their face. It’s like, “Okay, I get it. If I drop my blog and I'm not posting a lot, my traffic’s not going to increase.” You can just show people monthlies or pitch them these reports that show them “Publish no content, get no reward from Google,” it’s that simple. I do think that the proposals need back down a little bit. When you're looking at $500 a month retainers, $1000 a month retainers, you can't do it; you have to automate that if you’re an agency. I am convinced that by taking $500 a month, banging out 15 blog posts, which at WriterAccess costs you 20 bucks apiece, 25 bucks apiece. Your clients will benefit from that, because you'll be bringing them from to 0 to 60, publishing four blog posts a month.
I don't think you want to fight the battles with clients any longer, of them publishing content. They need a professional agency, namely yours, or a platform if they can’t afford an agency’s services to just bang out good content. So that's my thought, what’s your take on that John? To give an example, hopefully you’re going to win that client back, that rolled the dice and failed, right?
John McDougall: Yeah, I know, absolutely. I think that your tool is great for showing what happens when you back off like that client did. Number 1 for saxophone for years, it was like over a decade ago. I had a little secret where I had a magazine that was producing content about band instruments, and this was so long ago that they didn’t even think to put it on the web. I was trying so hard to get my client to develop content, I finally gave up and said, “Hey, would you mind if I called the maker of this band instrument magazine that you gave me to see if you can post the articles they do every month on your site?” They said, “Not only that, but we’ve got a backlog” and they emailed me a zip file of all kinds of articles. I just started posting them online with a credit to them as the source that Google had never indexed before. So, I was able to get a lot of content. The other thing I noticed was that when I would go into the store every Thursday to get my check and talk to them, that customer would be on the phone for a hour while I was waiting for him. He would be grabbing at two different saxophones, playing one versus the other, and the guy was amazing on the phone; selling and talking, educating the customer. I said, “I need you to give me stuff like that.” So by videotaping him talking and podcasting with him, we were able to get a lot of great content. So that’s another angle of getting content, but even doing that, you still need a writer to kind of map out your table of content and your strategies. Back briefly to what you said about showing examples. I think that’s a really great point and we've done pretty well with that, but we are making a greater emphasis on case studies than ever before and samples. Just in the last month, I’ve never seen more requests for, “Oh, so you do podcasting and videos and blog posts. Can you show me exact examples of the content you’ve created and where your rankings are for certain keywords?” So people are definitely asking that of us a lot, and it’s our responsibility to do a better job; putting those case studies and video testimonials up on our site. So, if you’re going to sell bigger content, it’s really hard to do if you don’t have those samples.
Byron White: One final question; it’s been so much fun to chat with you here in the end as well. I wish we had another hour to talk John, and I really appreciate your time today. You made an interesting decision from an agency perspective, and that was to hire the famous John Cass who actually used to work at IdeaLaunch when we were a full-service agency.
Exactly, that’s kind of an interesting move, because John is essentially a content marketing guru. He’s taking upon this challenge of saying, “We have to market ourselves better, we have to put content marketing and to practice what we preach a little bit better over here.” Can you talk about that a little bit?
John McDougall: Yeah, I’ll intro Sir John. John has worked for Byron, and he’s been the president of the American Marketing Association here in New England and Boston. He’s done some great things; he’s written a book on corporate blogging. Part of the reason I brought John Cass in was because SEOMoz dropped their name from SEOMoz to Moz, because the world has changed. I’m an old SEO guy and I think the funny thing is that SEO is far from dead. Google is still driven by keywords, but it has to be more than that. It just can’t be this slinky, “Oh, title and metatags.” A lot of the basic stuff, you still need it, if you do it lightly and carefully and in a good healthy way, but you can’t just do that. So, what do you think, John Cass, in terms of coming in here and working with the SEO team to try and help us be even better at content marketing?
John Cass: Well. I felt it was a really good fit between you and how I feel as well, which is a holistic approach to digital marketing; thinking about content marketing, thinking about PR. I well remember a situation where I was in a room with a large client and it was a magazine team; they also happened to have the SEO person in there, but I was thinking, “Hey, why don’t we have the PR team in there as well?” We could be thinking about article pieces that all could get published on the web.
We can then include ideas from the SEO team for keywords, but we could also be thinking about what possible PR campaigns we could be running from those articles, or sitting down with the PR team and saying, “What campaigns are you going to be doing over the next couple of months. What can we do as the content marketing team to help you out by producing content to make your PR campaigns much more fruitful?” I think that’s really the approach that companies have to take nowadays, which is to have an integrated approach, and really in a sense have … multiple channels and multiple devices, which I mentioned earlier.
Byron White: A man of many ideas, it’s all coming back to me John. John Cass.
John McDougall: John and John, right?
Byron White: Exactly; J and J.
John McDougall: We have four Johns out of a dozen people, if you can believe it.
Byron White: Oh, that’s funny. Somebody asked a really good question, and I wanted to fire off and answer and see if anybody else did as well, and then we’ll time out today. When hiring a full-time content person for in-house, what tips do you have to select the right candidates? That’s a great question, and I’ve thought deeply about that, and I have a couple of quick answers for you.
My favorite thing to do when hiring in general; I thought I’d shed some light, and this comes from a great book by Justin Smart and Randy Street called “Who?” They believe in this sort of quick screening process that you need to conduct with every prospect hire that you have. Well, first of all, they have a lot of cool philosophies. One is, you always have to be hiring; that is critical. But their screening techniques are interesting and the first one is “What are your goals?” The next one is “What are you really good at, professionally? The next one is, “What are you not good at?” And the last one is, “Who were your last five bosses you had, and how will they rate your performance on a scale of 1 to 10?”
Their contention is that by asking these four questions, you can immediately tag whether that person is the right fit for what you're looking for. Now, we can go into that in detail, but hopefully that helps. Hiring in-house content people is really, really tricky. I don't really know what kind of content person you're talking about. For example, is it is a writer, is it a content strategist? That’s two very different people. Is it an editor? Those are three completely different people and different skill sets that you need. So, that’s part of the challenge, and that’s why it’s hard to build a really good team these days because very few people have these particular skill sets.
The fifth one that I love asking, you’ll find the big four in the book, but the fifth one which I think is the critical hiring question is this concept of “Where do you want to be in five years, right?” I think an employer has an obligation to help someone get somewhere along the journey. Now, I’m not suggesting that you’re going to be here for five years, but you need to start now if you're trying to have a happy and fulfilling career somewhere.
Where do you want to go? You’ve got to start practicing and getting help from those people around you to acquire the skills to get where you want to go. So, there has to be alignment with those five questions. I’m convinced now, through the jillion interviews that I've done in my illustrious career, that within 20, 30 minutes of asking those five questions, I can see if there’s an alignment and a good fit without having to waste a lot of time going through multiple layers and having different people's opinions on things and all the normal things that larger corporations need to do; so, food for thought. Does anybody else have a final thought on that as we close out today's session, which focused on agencies?
John McDougall: Well, just very briefly, hiring content people is interesting. From my perspective, there’s so much practical work that has to get done outside of the writing. So, just make sure that if you hire a great writer, they’re going to be able to manage Base Camp or some kind of project-tracking software and project management skills because what we tend to do is hire someone that’s great in house that can get all the stuff done, and then allow very specialized niche writers to get the writing itself done. That’s been our approach.
Byron White: Got it; really good stuff. I really enjoyed the presentation today, gentlemen, and thanks everyone for tuning in today. I hope this was really helpful. By the way, this is the new content planner you’re seeing in the background here. I’m super pumped about this, it shows you everything that you produced or have in production.
A writer had a really good question; I think it was one of the writers that we work with. They wanted to know, “Where do I see this ideation tool that does the who, how and what?” I’ll go in here and I’ll do a search for garden. I’ll click “suggest topics” and you see “how to build and raise garden;” search volume 4,400 last month. Where's the Garden of Eden, How do I Make a Raised Garden Bed. This is a really cool tool to quickly find informational topic ideas, that's now built in and free for everyone. So, a little trick for the writers on board; we don't have this tool available for writers. We really do need it though; I need to work on that.
If you can, you can now go into WriterAccess, get a free account in there, and you can actually click on content planner and you’ll actually come to the calendar right here, where you’ll be able to add the idea and then search for new ideas and pop in your keyword phrase. So, I wanted to get that data to everyone in case they were interested. So, thanks again for tuning in. John, John, thanks for tuning in. Great presentation, everyone. Again, you’re going to get a link to the decks and a recording of this presentation and everything following this webinar by tomorrow at the latest, but knowing Glen, later today. Thanks for tuning everyone. We’ll see you for the 51st content marketing webinar next month, thanks for tuning in.